Barsteward

[Simmo]

Les I'm getting the barrel back tomorrow night and can deliver Saturday ,if

Can we meet up ? How does ladybower sound to you about 1ish if you can't make it perhaps I could drop it into Tims ,oldbull or Ramos for you .


Or do you guys fancy meeting up for a ride to lady bower I'm getting of the motorway at junction 21
I'll post thè route up when I've done it




Cheers simmo

[barsteward]

Hi Siimmo,
Yep, I can make that, don't know if the Burger Vans there on a Saturday but I'm sure a certain nearby rideing tvat will be along shortly to totaly take over the meeting arrangements.

[Mister Majestik]

Dave

if this is the barrel as it came off your bike,

have you got a spare key cut for it(just key not hiss chip) o

ignore me if you have sorted

[T.Murphy aka Tim]

After a great deal of thought I think the only thing to say is - fFook right off Barsteward, ya cnut.

I have been out for a drink tonight and |I feel this is the best riposte I can think of at the moment. and yes, it does need a riposte.

Fook him Simmo, let the cnoot drive down to fekkin Bedford for the fekkin thing.

Having said that, I'm open to a meet anywhere as I'd like to se the daft old twat get back on the road just to make my riding look awesome.

[barsteward]

After a great deal of thought I think the only thing to say is - fFook right off Barsteward, ya cnut.

I have been out for a drink tonight and |I feel this is the best riposte I can think of at the moment. and yes, it does need a riposte.

Fook him Simmo, let the cnoot drive down to fekkin Bedford for the fekkin thing.

Having said that, I'm open to a meet anywhere as I'd like to se the daft old twat get back on the road just to make my riding look awesome.

Awwwww yer big softee

[Simmo]

Nice one les , should be coming on the bike as the wether looks good at the minute ,



Ramo I only have the 2 keys that came with the barrel , I havnt an uncihipped key
Do this make any difference ??


On the way up I'll be getting of at j24 A50 'A515 to Ashbourne , cromford , new haven, Buxton , chapel en. Frith, Bamford



Cheers Dave

[Mister Majestik]

No shouldn't,

as long as you have a key that fits the lock, so hopefully Lesbo should be able to transfer the transponder from his key to one of your keys

[Simmo]

Here you go les picked it up tonight
Do you need me to get instructions or can you or maxx do it ?
Ŷou will need an original key

[T.Murphy aka Tim]

We have a parcel service in this country you know.

[barsteward]

Here you go les picked it up tonight
Do you need me to get instructions or can you or maxx do it ?
Ŷou will need an original key

image.jpg

Brilliant Simmo, I have a haynes but I'm sure if I get stuck some of the Very, Very nice Northern contingent will help me out In your debt Simmo, yer a star mate.

If the Sheffield rain god doesn't come up with a meeting place I'll meet you at the pub at the bottom of Lady Bower

[Simmo]

Here you go les picked it up tonight
Do you need me to get instructions or can you or maxx do it ?
Ŷou will need an original key

image.jpg

Brilliant Simmo, I have a haynes but I'm sure if I get stuck some of the Very, Very nice Northern contingent will help me out In your debt Simmo, yer a star mate.

If the Sheffield rain god doesn't come up with a meeting place I'll meet you at the pub at the bottom of Lady Bower

Looks like I may have one of you northern monkeys riding up with me
Pub at the bottom of lady bower sounds good

[MaXX2]

Les. Don't buy the wiring kit for re-programming keys. I'm CERTAIN that I have one somewhere at home (given to me for a job done) that has the right connector on it. Even if not, I'll just make one. Only thing would be the connector block, but I think that can be worked around.

The real question is.. What's the score with your current lock barrel?? Don't forget that you need to turn the ignition on and off with that whatever happens, to re-programme the new keys, because each key being programmed has to be inserted and used to turn on the ignition. Because Simmo's new keys are cut for a different lock, we'll have to get creative to make it work, but I think it should be do-able. Bottom line... need to be be able to mechanically turn the inition on and off with a piece of metal (think screwdriver), that I can run a wire to earth from. With that and a lucky wind...

Once Simmo's keys are mated to your ECU, we can change the barrel assembly, for which, you'll need a pair of shear bolts maybe??

[Mister Majestik]

Dave

weather looks better Sunday for Hathersage area,

I'm working Sat but if you go Sunday I'll meet ya J24 on the way up

[barsteward]

Les. Don't buy the wiring kit for re-programming keys. I'm CERTAIN that I have one somewhere at home (given to me for a job done) that has the right connector on it. Even if not, I'll just make one. Only thing would be the connector block, but I think that can be worked around.

The real question is.. What's the score with your current lock barrel?? Don't forget that you need to turn the ignition on and off with that whatever happens, to re-programme the new keys, because each key being programmed has to be inserted and used to turn on the ignition. Because Simmo's new keys are cut for a different lock, we'll have to get creative to make it work, but I think it should be do-able. Bottom line... need to be be able to mechanically turn the inition on and off with a piece of metal (think screwdriver), that I can run a wire to earth from. With that and a lucky wind...

Once Simmo's keys are mated to your ECU, we can change the barrel assembly, for which, you'll need a pair of shear bolts maybe??

Thanks Mick.
I managed to get the key in the barrel and turn it before I parked the bike up so that side of it should be ok, the trouble is until the weather improves (the bikes outside) I'm not sure if they cut the wiring to the key reader as well. Weather is looking promising Sunday so I may be able to get down then and have a proper look. I really do appreciate everyone's help but the truth is my personal circumstances at the moment are dire so even with the ignition repaired I don't think I'll be able to put her on the road, at least though she'll be ready when things do improve

[MaXX2]

Les. Don't buy the wiring kit for re-programming keys. I'm CERTAIN that I have one somewhere at home (given to me for a job done) that has the right connector on it. Even if not, I'll just make one. Only thing would be the connector block, but I think that can be worked around.

The real question is.. What's the score with your current lock barrel?? Don't forget that you need to turn the ignition on and off with that whatever happens, to re-programme the new keys, because each key being programmed has to be inserted and used to turn on the ignition. Because Simmo's new keys are cut for a different lock, we'll have to get creative to make it work, but I think it should be do-able. Bottom line... need to be be able to mechanically turn the inition on and off with a piece of metal (think screwdriver), that I can run a wire to earth from. With that and a lucky wind...

Once Simmo's keys are mated to your ECU, we can change the barrel assembly, for which, you'll need a pair of shear bolts maybe??

Thanks Mick.
I managed to get the key in the barrel and turn it before I parked the bike up so that side of it should be ok, the trouble is until the weather improves (the bikes outside) I'm not sure if they cut the wiring to the key reader as well. Weather is looking promising Sunday so I may be able to get down then and have a proper look. I really do appreciate everyone's help but the truth is my personal circumstances at the moment are dire so even with the ignition repaired I don't think I'll be able to put her on the road, at least though she'll be ready when things do improve

That's a good sign Les. Hopefully the barrel is just damaged enough to let us do the same with Simmo's two keys as well.

As for timing, Kay's ma & pa are on the move and this weekend will be fitting a bathroom suite and new lights/switches and socket facias as well as taking a TV coax from one room to another and, if I'm being honest, next weekend might not be too easy either!! So if it's this weekend I'm afraid I'm definately knackered and I'll have to bow out.

For the record though, whoever's doing this will need the knackered lock barrel that's currently on, to be rewired. I would suggest either removing the barrel altogether, then unplugging it from the loom and re-solder it on a bench or, if prefered, just solder wire extensions into it whilst it's in situ, to give you room to move.

Over to you matey, hope it helps

[barsteward]

Sorry Mick. wasn't suggesting you come over this week as I said in my early post I'm in no position to put her back on the road at the moment. No, I was just going to go down and assess the situation properly perhaps remove some of the clutter and take some proper photographs so we can see exactly what needs doing

Just out of curiosity (cos not everyone is technically minded like what you are ) is it possible that some keys are cut the same or are they all different. To a layman it would seem pointless having thousands of different keys and barrels when the actual security is within the ECU

[MaXX2]

Sorry Mick. wasn't suggesting you come over this week as I said in my early post I'm in no position to put her back on the road at the moment. No, I was just going to go down and assess the situation properly perhaps remove some of the clutter and take some proper photographs so we can see exactly what needs doing

Just out of curiosity (cos not everyone is technically minded like what you are ) is it possible that some keys are cut the same or are they all different. To a layman it would seem pointless having thousands of different keys and barrels when the actual security is within the ECU

Here's the deal as I see it Les... The security of the HISS system is in the ECU and the key (which, as well as a cut blade, has an electronic transponder built into it). The two units communicate wirelessly to some extent, via an antenna, which is the plastic raised ring around the ignition keyhole marked 'HISS'. The antenna isn't machine specific or coded as far as I can see and therefore it's transferable without any aggravation. But that leaves the key/ECU interface, which is very coded and very specific to each other.

The Honda HISS key blank costs about £60. There'll probably be around 500 or 1000 different key numbers, in other words different serration sequences cut down the blade so they mechanically fit and turn, so a fairly limited number, but you'd get bored fast waiting for the right key to accidentally turn up on eBay! In any case the interface with the ECU could easily be a million to one shot, which is why the HISS system is CAT 2 rated and why they cost a fortune to replace even second hand.

In order to programme or re-programme a key to work with the ECU, you need to bugger about with a mini wiring loom, connect the ECU to the battery and then put your original key in the ignition to turn on the re-programming function. With the function started and a light flashing on your dash, you remove the master key and insert each new key into the ignition, turn it on then off and then it learns the code that the ECU is sending to it and that's that... programmed. Usually, that wouldn't be a problem, because somebody would have lost a key, needed a new one and so rung Honda. Honda would have cut the new, unprogrammed key to fit the lock using the key number (which of course we all have written down and in our owner's papers) and then sent it to the dealer for programming on the bike, pretty much as above.

The problem, is that the two keys you want to reprogramme won't turn in the same lock as the key they have to learn from. So we can't fit the new barrel to your bike and sort it, because the old key won't turn in the new lock barrel to turn on the ECU into programming function, so we have to get creative with what we've got. So...

Re-wire the existing ignion (on or off the bike). Start the programming function with the original key then remove and take it away. Next the two new keys need three things to be programmed... 1) proximity to the antenna, 2) an earth (the key blade must be earthed during set up. By nature, it would usually be earthed through the lock barrel but not today eh!), 3) the ignition has to be turned on and off with the key. Piece o' piss eh? Well, yes, provided Simmo's keys (by magnificent happenchance) go into the lock and turn it and... well... there's a bit of creative thinking required if they won't. IF they don't, as far as I can figure, t'll have to go something like this...

We'll start the re-programming function using the good key on the original, damaged barrel. Remove that key at the right time as is required. Insert a screwdriver (or other piece of similar metal) into ignition barrel to imitate the new key. There will be a wire soldered/attached to the screwdriver at one end and a wee croc clip on the other end, to clip onto the key (and thereby earth it to the inside of the barrel as Soichiro San intended. The set up routine is basically, connect the new key as above. Place it next to or on, the antenna. Turn the screwdriver in the lock to the on position and then off as required. In essence, the key, antenna, ECU interface is maintained by proximity and the ignition sequence is done by the scredriver, but that shouldn't matter becuase the ECU can't tell the diiference between an earthed metal key turning in the lock and an earthed metal screwdriver. As a matter of fact, the ECU shouldn't even care. What it's looking for is communication twixt key transponder and ECU at the same time as the ignition being turned on and off and it has that.

You should be able to set up 4 keys like that (max)

So... why have I just bored everyone to death with my theories... because if anyone wants to help you with it whilst I'm unable to get there, they now know what I'm thinking and at least it's not that difficult

[MaXX2]

How many keys have you got for your bike Les

[barsteward]

got the 2 oem keys.....you did answer my question though........there is a chance however small that the keys serated edge could be the same having said that i think the little fraze underneath says it all

[Simmo]

Dave

weather looks better Sunday for Hathersage area,

I'm working Sat but if you go Sunday I'll meet ya J24 on the way up

Sorry Steve can't do Sunday Mothering Sunday en alll

Let me know when your not working a weekend and we can get out (not the closet jono) on a happy to do Derbyshire dales or melton


Dave

[MaXX2]

got the 2 oem keys.....you did answer my question though........there is a chance however small that the keys serated edge could be the same having said that i think the little fraze underneath says it all

I'm wondering whether we could transplant the transponders from your key into one of the ones Simmo's bringing up If it's possible wthout destroying the whole thing, it would save a lot of arsing around.

You can cling on to your dreams about the keys being the same. The odds are 500-1000/1 against, but never forget real '300'. Leonidas and 300 Spartans against 300,000 Persians eh... same odds... 1000/1




























mind you they only held on for a few days, then they all died like, but you know what I mean

[MaXX2]

Some ideas to add to your sig line Les

Life. Don't talk to me about life!

I think you ought to know, I'm feeling very depressed!

I have a million ideas. They all point to certain death.

It's hard to answer the question "What's wrong?" when nothing's right.

I'm slowly giving up!

The smile is faked, so I don't have to tell you why I'm not happy.

If you could read my mind you'd be in tears!

[Oldbull]

Looks like I may have one of you northern monkeys riding up with me


Pub at the bottom of lady bower sounds good

Looks like that has gone straight over someones head


Nice one Les.. is that the same pub thats at the side of the church mate..

[barsteward]

Some ideas to add to your sig line Les

Life. Don't talk to me about life!

I think you ought to know, I'm feeling very depressed!

I have a million ideas. They all point to certain death.

It's hard to answer the question "What's wrong?" when nothing's right.

I'm slowly giving up!

The smile is faked, so I don't have to tell you why I'm not happy.

If you could read my mind you'd be in tears!

Don't think that would all fit in it does however just about sum things up at the moment

[barsteward]

Looks like I may have one of you northern monkeys riding up with me


Pub at the bottom of lady bower sounds good

Looks like that has gone straight over someones head


Nice one Les.. is that the same pub thats at the side of the church mate..

Well, lets put it this way, don't forget to bring your snorkle and flippers