Low speed control and linked brakes

[Tomgray]

HELP

After several almost embarrassing offs in gravelly car parks, U turns in restricted areas, especially when two up with the boss and luggage on board I have decided to ask for advise from the more experienced members. My bird is the first bike I have owned with linked brakes. I have no problems except at lower speeds when on all my previous machines I used to drag the rear brake just to steady things up a bit. Is there a technique I can learn or will I have to "DE LINK" my pride and joy?
Any help and advise gratefully received.

Tom

[jack]

Hi Ya Tom, now't wrong with using the back brake for stability, in fact, with pillion and luggage, I think you'll find it hard not to!

Don't worry about the 'linked brakes' at slow speed you won't even notice.

[Gruf]

HELP

After several almost embarrassing offs in gravelly car parks, U turns in restricted areas, especially when two up with the boss and luggage on board I have decided to ask for advise from the more experienced members. My bird is the first bike I have owned with linked brakes. I have no problems except at lower speeds when on all my previous machines I used to drag the rear brake just to steady things up a bit. Is there a technique I can learn or will I have to "DE LINK" my pride and joy?
Any help and advise gratefully received.

Tom

Tom
Think you will find that on gravel the only way to stop is using the back brake whilst going in a stright line.
As for u turns you could try counter balancing the weight of your bike with you body weight. Push your weight the opposite way to the way you are turning.
Or find a bigger place to do a u turn.

[aj]

.

.. set of stabilisers goin round somewhere thumbtrey ... tintvat passes them to me ..
i've passes them on to dolfyrave who sent em on te marywog ...he used em twice
think fudgie in oz has them now

think we would all agree.. problems fallin over had nowt te do with linked breakes...
more inept manoeuvrings, and or loose/slipy surface beneath feet

i use a light back break to steady up whilst lining up for most corners.. at any speed
.. no problems

regards
aj

[dufus]

Tom dare I be so bold

YOUR THINKING TOO MUCH ABOUT ITTTTTTTTT !

Thats better, honestly linked brakes are like a dry clutch are like a light weight bike in the fact within time your learn to adapt to the differnces.

just relax, accept it's basically two hweels with brakes and learn the difference when you feel like it, relaxed and not worrying about it to much.

Failing that, put it on a trailer turn the trailer around and viola, no need for u turns

[strider]

use the rear brake for every slow speed manouver

[the pc doctor]

U turn?????

What's one of those then????

Can I do one of these on a tractor

I don't do gravel and I don't do U turns I just point mine in the general direction I want it to go

If I do get myself into one of 'those' situations I tend to use both feet to 'walk' the bike round, if I have to I sometimes tilt the bike whilst sitting upright. At least if I start going towards the old 'bugger' point I can throw my weight the other way.

anyway no problem lifting an back up, it takes about ten people to lift mine.

[jdugen]

90% of the time unoticable, if a bit weak for a tool that can go 180mph.
BUT!!!! Be very, very, very careful if you find yourself in this position.

Steepish downhill with a polished (or wet, greasy) road surface. Fully loaded with touring gear for a fortnight, tankbag full. Sharp blind bend approaching. Brake quite normally if a little harder than usual. Bike loads the front end, rear end now light, brakes lock the back wheel. As the rear wheel settles down on the road, it is still locked. No way to release the front brakes unless a trip into the approaching Armco is a part of the itinary. Back wheel now slithering along the shiny road surface, front end goes haywire. A nice crunching noise of expensively shattering plastic and a fortnights stay in hospital for my unfortunate brother.

Linked brakes are lethal because they bite you in the ass right when you need full control of everything. The first job, after repairing the damage, is to cast the braking system right into the bin. Next go the totally insufficient front forks..... Fireblade bits are cheap, fit, look good and damn well work! Now, how can I lose about half a ton of uneccessary weight from, what is, after all, just a Fireblade with a few too many christmas dinners in its gut.

John

[BiXXer Bob]

I once did a slow riding course organised by the IAM (yes, on me 'Bird). As well as learning to turn it tighter than I ever thought possible, I learned a very simple technique that works really good after a bit of practice. It works for U turns, but it also works for those awkward, off-camber-emerging-from-a-junction-turning-right situations.

The police qualified instructor showed us: start with the bike stationary (bleedin' obvious), clutch in, first gear engaged, left foot down and right foot on the brake, no front brake lever (most of the slow part of the course banned the use of the front brake lever completely). Next raise the revs to a normal (not wheelie) level for pulling away. Let the clutch out until it just begins to bite. Now, keep the clutch and throttle steady. don't change either. Instead, control the speed you move off with the rear brake. If you're U turning, move slowly forward controlling the speed with the rear brake, not the throttle or clutch. If you're pulling out of a junction control your speed with the rear brake until you're straight and upright, then come off the brake, clutch out anf off y' go. The theory is that the engine spinning at a couple of thou' revs generates some of the gyroscopic stability that you get from the wheels when you're going faster but is missing when going slowly. It takes a bit of practice but it soon comes and the bike feels much more settled and stable.

Find an empty car park to try it out. You'll feel like a tool but it's worth it.

[jack]

Or you could just remember that when you apply the front brakes, the forks compress....do you really want that going down hill?....Let the bike 'settle' on it's suspension....before applying.

I just made that up ya'naw....Fekin hell, I'm a genius ain't I?


Mind ya, I don know what you mean, those "Steepish downhill with a polished (or wet, greasy) road surface" just spring right out at ya, they give you no chance at all

[jdugen]

The whole point of linked brakes is that they are linked!!! You have no option of using 'just the back brake' both ends have a certain level of braking no matter which lever you operate. Hard on the front brakes means the back is operating too. My point is that even with the reduced braking effort applied to the rear by the front brake lever, it is sufficient to lock the rear wheel when it is unloaded / light from the downhill stance of the bike. Believe me, a locked back wheel in any situation is not a good thing, on a bike as heavy and long as the Bird, it can lead to unfortunate outcomes.

[MaXX2]

The whole point of linked brakes is that they are linked!!! You have no option of using 'just the back brake' both ends have a certain level of braking no matter which lever you operate. Hard on the front brakes means the back is operating too. My point is that even with the reduced braking effort applied to the rear by the front brake lever, it is sufficient to lock the rear wheel when it is unloaded / light from the downhill stance of the bike. Believe me, a locked back wheel in any situation is not a good thing, on a bike as heavy and long as the Bird, it can lead to unfortunate outcomes.

Only time I had a rear lock-up under braking was on me own (unusual for me) and on a wet road. I was going too fast toward a bend and overcooked the front lever rear locked up until I backed off for a millisecond and then eased 'em on again. Prob solved itself.

To be honest, its exactly what I would have done WITHOUT linked brakes- ie if a wheel locks up on the brake, let the brake out till it simmers down and then an easy reload on the lever. 'Spose pumping brakes is as old as the internal combustion engine and it always works.

As fer gravel, mud, grass etc (and I fookin KNOW its not the right way to do it ) I use low speed and gentle, smooth dabs of front brake and both feet 2" from the ground. As I said, I'm usually 2 up so counterbalancing and rear braking are difficult. Luggage doesn't move on its own- wives (just veeeeery occasionallly) DO!! It comes to summat if Mrs Maxx sneezing costs a respray

As for linked brakes as a whole- I'll keep mine ta very much - I remember just how fookin good they are from a recent excursion to the 'Ring.

Serious point JD- pass our regards to yer bro'- hope his recovery is fast and complete

[jack]

"Serious point JD- pass our regards to yer bro'- hope his recovery is fast and complete"

Second that emotion :clap::clap:



"The whole point of linked brakes is that they are linked!!!!" Yep....Think I've got that and I most heartily agree BUT it's not as you are implying!!!

When you apply the REAR BRAKE the FRONT will come on only partially and 'here's the rub' the important part, The front suspension doesn't take a bloody dive, the bike will settle on it's suspension.

If you apply the front brake first....That's when the problems start....Linked or not! As for the condition of the road at the time. I've been caught out many a time and maybe luckily I haven't come off.

But the point is....It was me that was 'caught out' NOT the bike, Mind'ya, he would have been in trouble if he had been riding a Blade

[MaXX2]

If this is off thread, feel free to pull it Crew!! Just thinking about this and I reckon braking is probly the hardest thing to get right in biking (linked or not) I mean, any nobber can scream past at 165 mph on a bike that will do 200, it ain't even impressive if yer on the same machine BUT, slowing down in a hurry or stopping fast, doesn't half seem to cause some problems. I think most of the offs I've seen over the last hmm hmm years, probly invoved the actual act of braking, diesel patch, rough surface, wet/damp road or mebbe just a touch of panic going into a bend a bit too hot

An old instructor of mine used to reckon that half of the offs (major & minor) could be avoided by leaving the brakes alone and just taking the speed through the corner, knowing that the machine is more capable than the rider anyway.

I wonder if he was right Thoughts??? Words of Wisdom???

[jack]

If this is off thread, feel free to pull it Crew!! Just thinking about this and I reckon braking is probly the hardest thing to get right in biking (linked or not) I mean, any nobber can scream past at 165 mph on a bike that will do 200, it ain't even impressive if yer on the same machine BUT, slowing down in a hurry or stopping fast, doesn't half seem to cause some problems. I think most of the offs I've seen over the last hmm hmm years, probly invoved the actual act of braking, diesel patch, rough surface, wet/damp road or mebbe just a touch of panic going into a bend a bit too hot

An old instructor of mine used to reckon that half of the offs (major & minor) could be avoided by leaving the brakes alone and just taking the speed through the corner, knowing that the machine is more capable than the rider anyway.

I wonder if he was right Thoughts??? Words of Wisdom???

Couldn't agree more Maxx....I wonder why ya do an 'Emergency Stop' on your test

Seems like a lot of peeps throw that in the bin with the H/Code, when they've passed.

[MaXX2]

If this is off thread, feel free to pull it Crew!! Just thinking about this and I reckon braking is probly the hardest thing to get right in biking (linked or not) I mean, any nobber can scream past at 165 mph on a bike that will do 200, it ain't even impressive if yer on the same machine BUT, slowing down in a hurry or stopping fast, doesn't half seem to cause some problems. I think most of the offs I've seen over the last hmm hmm years, probly invoved the actual act of braking, diesel patch, rough surface, wet/damp road or mebbe just a touch of panic going into a bend a bit too hot

An old instructor of mine used to reckon that half of the offs (major & minor) could be avoided by leaving the brakes alone and just taking the speed through the corner, knowing that the machine is more capable than the rider anyway.

I wonder if he was right Thoughts??? Words of Wisdom???

Couldn't agree more Maxx....I wonder why ya do an 'Emergency Stop' on your test

Seems like a lot of peeps throw that in the bin with the H/Code, when they've passed.

If ya tell me what H/Code is, I'll try and remember if I binned it

[jack]

'Highway'....For us old'un's

[Deano]

New highway code out now which mentions distractions whilst driving - things like GPS systems, mobile phones (even hands free), music, smoking etc.

As I haven't yet worked out a way to smoke whilst riding my bike with a full faced helmet on I seem to be ok.

The rest of you teknofilzes take note:

Now whre is that fag packet with Jacks address on??????????

Deano

[MaXX2]

New highway code out now which mentions distractions whilst driving - things like GPS systems, mobile phones (even hands free), music, smoking etc.

As I haven't yet worked out a way to smoke whilst riding my bike with a full faced helmet on I seem to be ok.

The rest of you teknofilzes take note:

Now whre is that fag packet with Jacks address on??????????
Deano

Dunno m8- I was watching the graphic equaliser on me MP3 player

[jack]

OK, OK, I'll get rid of the GPS, MP3 and comms but I'm not stopping eating mi buttie and drinking mi coffee.

Oh and don't blame me if we end up in Praha (posh spelling) instead of the Nurbergring next year

[aj]

I'm not stopping eating mi buttie and drinking mi coffee.

Oh and don't blame me if we end up in Praha (posh spelling) instead of the Nurbergring next year

... we aint goin anywere till that welshtvat sorts it ...lazzeee nastid :

lardieboy...better ask him te put bun shop stops in all the routs he's not plannin ...
and iffin he can disorganise it so they co-inside with fag breaks ...all the better ...
but that may be a bit ard fer the lad



regards
aj

watchimbite

[MaXX2]

Well- if we're banning MP3's and GPS and fag boxes- I'm off to play wi' me PMR so Nurrrrrrr Nurrrrrrr

[TESLACOIL]

UGLY...

you are confirming my suspiscions(new bird owner here)

link brakes are fine for pootling around on but they can and will get you in trouble ....when you most need to get out of it.

That is .....any unusual road conditions that you gonna struggle with with normal brakes....linked brakes will finish the job!


turning out of junction and u need to stop fast...wack back brake ( front comes on with the back and the bike topples over

downhill in the wet braking hard back wheel locks

emergency stop in the dry ...back wheel locks if you are ham fisted with the front


brakeing in corners in the wet (rear brake )the bike stands up and runs wide

you dont know how pooh linked brakes are till they bite you...by two bits

[Keith Inglis]

Talking about brakes, I have to say the best brakes I have ever had on a bike was the BMW k1200RS it had abs and linked brakes on the front only with power assist,
I once had to slam on everything from over 100mph and the on board computer controled everything, the back wheel did not lock and of course there is no dive with them anyway, I could not beleive the distance it stopped in, at least a third less then the 1200 Triumph Trophy I had as well at the time, that stood on its front wheel once, and I wondered why the back was waving about
I have just bought a Bird, so it will be interesting to see, I taken note of everything everyone has said on the posts and will tread carefully to start with.
Thanks guys and girls

[MaXX2]

Talking about brakes, I have to say the best brakes I have ever had on a bike was the BMW k1200RS it had abs and linked brakes on the front only with power assist,
I once had to slam on everything from over 100mph and the on board computer controled everything, the back wheel did not lock and of course there is no dive with them anyway, I could not beleive the distance it stopped in, at least a third less then the 1200 Triumph Trophy I had as well at the time, that stood on its front wheel once, and I wondered why the back was waving about
I have just bought a Bird, so it will be interesting to see, I taken note of everything everyone has said on the posts and will tread carefully to start with.
Thanks guys and girls

No doubt about it- modern linking and ABS are superb and I'd like 'em on me next bike. The only slight niggle I have (and it is only slight) about 'em, is what happens when the rider(s) behind me haven't got 'em, when I drop anchors at 110mph on the 'bahn