misfire/cuttingout

[automatic]

Hi

I wonder if anyone can throw any light onto the problem I have with my Blackbird, its on 02 plate with 33,000 miles, it has developed a misfire/cutting out problem it appears worse when it warms up...on tick over its a little lumpy but runs.However when the engine gets warm it cuts out, it starts straight away on the button after cutting out runs for different lengths of time before repeating the fault..

When riding at speed it appears as the engine dies for a second then will run for a few miles before doing it again.

Up to press I have drained the tank and removed the fuel pump to clean the gauze out.

As the wiring loom had been chopped and things added by the previous owner i replaced the loom with one from a "04" model and took the opportunity to do the loom fix as described on here.

I replaced the rear wiring loom as well.

Before going down the route of replacing other items I thought i would see if anyone could throw any light on to the issue.

The bike lives outside under cover, never had any issues with flat batteries etc so i think the charging side id fine.

any suggestions would be appreciated or as alternative if anyone can recommend a good mechanic in or around Wakefield

[aj]

.

have you ever replaced the reg/rec...???

regards
aj

[automatic]

Its still the original and as far as I am aware its charging ok.

[aj]

Its still the original and as far as I am aware its charging ok.

i recognise the symptoms... they normally don't last 33k so you've done well... suspect it's that
uprated ones last much longer...jaws sells them...

regards
aj

[Oldbull]

Hi ya auto... sorry to hear of your woes mate..

AJ is right about the reg/rec, if its the original then its defo worth changing anyway as they are prone to fail well before that mileage ...
just put a meter on the charging circuit when your done as well as they take other things out with them ie battery and Generator...
Read here first ... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22743

Was the bike running ok before the loom change.. sounds electrical to me rather than fuel...

1st thing 1st make sure charging circuit is good

[automatic]

The bike had developed the fault prior to the loom change, the previous owner had spliced fancy lights into it and also it had an alarm fitted, the alarm went tits up whilst on a ride out, so rather than call the RAC i traced the wires and removed the alarm, that solved the alarm issue(never like alarms anyway). I read about the loom fix so rather than doing it on the old loom which had more joints than a druggy I decided to buy another loom, do the fix regardless...not that much of a job...all refitted, result...misfire exactly the same...

Its never blown fuses or had flat battery, it had a power commander on so I removed that to no avail....

I have always erred towards an electrical fault as it only missed when being ridden, however now it does it when its on the side stand and not being moved.

thanks for the tips will run through the tests as shown...

[automatic]

well with the weather getting a tad better I thought it was time to investigate the problem yet again, started first time and ran ok until it warmed up. The the old problem was just the same...Metered the Rectifier under load (full beam, Indicators) and it was putting out 14.2 @3,000 rpm and never altered so it would appear that the charging system is fine...so back to the drawing board..any further suggestions from anyone.

[Akuji]

Sounds like it could be either the crank or cam position sensors. Had a similar problem on a car and when it warmed up it cut out, allowed to cool then started again.

[MaXX2]

A good place to start might be by checking the ECM fault codes Auto. The ECM is supplied by a huge range of sensors that CAN, sometimes, tell you exactly where a fault is. Your fault sounds like one we had with a bloke from Canada years ago and it turned out to be the coolant sensor which had failed.

I've put a link below which will tell you how to check for faults. It's an easy process and dependant on the number of times the FI light flashes. Try run the test in a darkish place so all's clearly visible, then cross reference the flashing lights with the diagnostic chart contained on the page.

Have a feeling that might help at least locating the fault and will save a few quid 'buying and trying' various bits. Link below and I'd suggest a good read through the night before, just so it's familiar...

ECM fault code diagnostic

Mick

[automatic]

Thanks for that, I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) if the ecu light did not light up it would not show a fault code...electrics are far from my strong point to say the least...will update you with what I find

[automatic]

well finally found the time and braved the wonderful weather and carried out the check, in all the time i have had the bike the F1 light has never once come on other than when starting up..so was surprised and happy that code 1 (map sensor) and 9 (air intake temperature sensor) flashed up.
So we have a starting point, will order these and let you know what happens.

many thanks for all suggestions and help

regards

Auto

[MaXX2]

Good news Auto Stick with it pal, the bike will tell you what's wrong... you just have to learn the lingo

Just a suggestion here, but I'd be tempted to locate, remove and check the two sensors. Check the wires before removing, make sure the terminals are clean etc and then check sensors are also clean and not corroded etc It would be a shame to buy a part that just needs a gentle 'fettle' after 11 years of life (either ridden or parked over winters).

[automatic]

checked all the wires and sensor connectors they are all as clean as a whistle. so just waiting for delivery of the new bits and fingers crossed we will see what appertains..

[automatic]

well replaced both sensors and b.....s still the same misfire when it warms up..no fault codes showing when checking ecu..
so yet again any suggestions or thoughts would be ....going to change the coolant sensor has previously mentioned..

[automatic]

well coolant sensor replaced to no avail....so back to head scratching...

[automatic]

Update

Well the bike is still u/s same problem...It developed all sorts of electrical mishaps, indicators and rear brake light all stopped working and when terminals metered at respective connectors it was only reading 2.2v on some and none on others as opposed to the 12v it should read.

So bit the bullet and ordered a new complete loom from Mr Honda(ouch) when I stripped the old loom out and checked it I found that it had been butchered and bodged so I had great hopes and fingers crossed for the new loom, however not a complete success , I now have all indicators and brake lights working but still the original problem of the engine cutting out.



I have replaced the following
right hand bar switch ( in case the emergency cut out was faulty
Side stand switch
Neutral
Clutch micro switch.

The bike sounds really sweet when ticking over until it suddenly stops, when riding its sweet until the engine cuts and fires back up, the engine cut out is milli seconds.

At no time do the dash lights and clocks go out, the F1 light has never come on flickered or anything.

I was chatting with the Honda mechanic at P&D's at wakey when I took it for the MOT, it did its little engine cutting out and he was shall we say mystified.

So here we are again, a number of people have pointed towards bottom of the ignition switch, but if that and issue would it not effect the digital clocks etc..

any other suggestions I'm all ears..

thanks

[aj]

.

have you changed the reg rec...????

regards
aj

[automatic]

I haven't changed the reg/rec it shows as charging fine when metered even when under load, no issues starting the bike and it lives outside.
It does not show any symptoms that like my carb blackbird had when the rectifier was on its way out

[aj]

I haven't changed the reg/rec it shows as charging fine when metered even when under load, no issues starting the bike and it lives outside.
It does not show any symptoms that like my carb blackbird had when the rectifier was on its way out

ok...


only other things i can think of to help are ....trapped/pinched breather pipe from the tank...loads of sheeeite in the fueling system
crack in distributorthingee/plug leads...

i don't do spanners you see but i do remember stuff that has happened to mine over the past 12 years

regards
aj


i know a good mechannanick type fella if all else fails...

[automatic]

Thanks for the input aj, my first thought was fuel related but id is a total cut out, no stuttering or anything that you normally get with fuel related issues(or so I think).
I would appreciate any recommendations on a good mechanic.

[aj]

Thanks for the input aj, my first thought was fuel related but id is a total cut out, no stuttering or anything that you normally get with fuel related issues(or so I think).
I would appreciate any recommendations on a good mechanic.

my guy is in droitwitch.... don't know where you are...

regards
aj

[automatic]

I'm in Wakefield, west yorks..if i cant solve the problem and find anyone any closer i will give you a shout

thanks again

[DaveCh42]

Sounds like you are not electrically inept (like me) let the bike warm up and check the crank position sensor.
I had one go on my Bonny when the engine was cold she would fire up fine. As soon as she warmed up she would die and not fire until completely cold. A little different symptom wise but I think it would be worth a check if you know what your doing.

[automatic]

Thanks Dave

someone else suggested that along with camshaft sensor..... I wasn't sure if the engine would run lumpy if the sensors were playing up or it would cut out...i have both sensors tagged of an 05 low mileage bike so if the ignition looks fine i will replace them...one good thing from all this its never sounded as good when it runs...

[MaXX2]

Auto... seems like you're on the run around a bit now? Replacing sensors that don't usually fail and even mechanics scratching their heads? The one thing that would be useful to check is the ECM. A very expensive box of electronics and computer software, without which, the average fuel infected XX becomes a really good quality paper weight! The knack with this is not to buy one, but to try and borrow one. They're plug 'n' play units so if you have a mate or acquaintance with an infected 'bird, who will ride over to your house one afternoon, you can swap them over and you'll know if that's the fault or not in a few minutes (and frankly, you'll breath a huge sigh of relief either way!)

I am near you in Huddersfield but don't (and won't) own an FI model. I've stuck a post on Whippet (where everyone will look) but also, on the BIRD site there is a fella called Taffy, who apparently is not only a mine of info about the XX but has parts available as well. NOW... I'm not talking for Taffy here coz that's not on!! The ECM is the thick end of a grand new so simply 'lending one to a stranger' is a bloody big ask. Having said that though, I hear the guy's a world class gentleman with a habit of making things happen and problems disappear and I would certainly recommend you sign up on BIRD and drop him a line (if you're not already on BIRD)?

I hope this helps. What I'm saying is, that the fault you have might be the ECM but I'm not certain enough to recommend you stump out that kind o'f wedge without being sure